{"id":14585,"date":"2018-07-09T08:05:35","date_gmt":"2018-07-09T07:05:35","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/?p=14585"},"modified":"2018-07-09T08:11:14","modified_gmt":"2018-07-09T07:11:14","slug":"claude-lanzmann-filmer-lhorreur-du-grain-a-moudre-france-culture","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/2018\/07\/09\/claude-lanzmann-filmer-lhorreur-du-grain-a-moudre-france-culture\/","title":{"rendered":"Claude Lanzmann : filmer l&rsquo;horreur |\u00a0Du grain \u00e0 moudre &#8211; France culture"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><strong>Comment dire l\u2019indicible ? Comment montrer l&rsquo;horreur sans passer par la fiction ? C&rsquo;est la question que pose ce monument du cin\u00e9ma : Shoah, travail immense de Claude Lanzmann, qui nous a quitt\u00e9 le 5 juillet dernier.\u00a0France Culture lui a rendu hommage.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>L&rsquo;\u00e9mission :<\/p>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/www.franceculture.fr\/player\/export-reecouter?content=11c67d97-225b-42af-914e-da87cf2e78bf\" width=\"481\" height=\"137\" frameborder=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<div class=\"content-body\">\n<p><em>\u00ab\u00a0Je ne me suis jamais gu\u00e9ri de la mort. Ce qui me scandalise le plus dans le monde, c\u2019est de devoir mourir. Je n\u2019aime pas la musique, et je n\u2019aime pas mourir. Vous pouvez dire \u00e7a de moi\u00a0\u00bb<\/em>\u2026 c\u2019est ce que d\u00e9clarait Claude Lanzmann il y a peu sur <em>France Culture<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Claude Lanzmann a \u00e9t\u00e9 r\u00e9sistant, journaliste, proche de Sartre, amant de Beauvoir, directeur de la <em>Revue des Temps Modernes<\/em>\u2026 puis r\u00e9alisateur de Shoah qui fut \u00e9videmment sa grande \u0153uvre. Il a \u00e9t\u00e9 question de tout cela et de bien d\u2019autres choses, comme son go\u00fbt pour l\u2019aventure. Nous nous arr\u00eatons sur l\u2019impact intellectuel de son travail, et sur le d\u00e9bat n\u00e9 \u00e0 la sortie de Shoah en 1985\u2026 Un d\u00e9bat qui court jusqu\u2019\u00e0 aujourd\u2019hui.<\/p>\n<p>Car les 9h30 de films ont \u00e9t\u00e9 un v\u00e9ritable choc \u00e0 sa sortie. Lanzmann r\u00e9pondait \u00e0 cette question impossible\u00a0: Comment dire l\u2019indicible\u00a0? Ce film et ses 350 heures de rushes sont un v\u00e9ritable tournant historiographique et posent d\u00e9finitivement la question du t\u00e9moignage et de la repr\u00e9sentation de la Shoah.<\/p>\n<h3 class=\"content-section-wrapper-title\">Intervenants :<\/h3>\n<ul class=\"guests-list\">\n<li class=\"guests-list-guest\">\n<div class=\"guests-list-guest-name\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.franceculture.fr\/personne\/bernard-henri-levy\">Bernard-Henri L\u00e9vy<\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"guests-list-guest-role\">\u00e9crivain, philosophe<\/div>\n<\/li>\n<li class=\"guests-list-guest\">\n<div class=\"guests-list-guest-name\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.franceculture.fr\/personne-ophir-levy\">Ophir L\u00e9vy<\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"guests-list-guest-role\">professeur d&rsquo;histoire et d&rsquo;esth\u00e9tique du cin\u00e9ma \u00e0 Paris III Sorbonne-Nouvelle, formateur au M\u00e9morial de la Shoah<\/div>\n<\/li>\n<li class=\"guests-list-guest\">\n<div class=\"guests-list-guest-name\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.franceculture.fr\/personne-jean-michel-frodon.html\">Jean-Michel Frodon<\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"guests-list-guest-role\">Historien du cin\u00e9ma<\/div>\n<\/li>\n<li class=\"guests-list-guest\">\n<div class=\"guests-list-guest-name\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.franceculture.fr\/personne\/patrice-maniglier\">Patrice Maniglier<\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"guests-list-guest-role\">ma\u00eetre de conf\u00e9rences en philosophie \u00e0 l&rsquo;Universit\u00e9 Paris-Nanterre<\/div>\n<\/li>\n<li class=\"guests-list-guest\">\n<div class=\"guests-list-guest-name\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.franceculture.fr\/personne\/remy-besson\">R\u00e9my Besson<\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"guests-list-guest-role\">historien, chercheur postdoctoral \u00e0 l&rsquo;Universit\u00e9 de Montr\u00e9al et associ\u00e9 \u00e0 l&rsquo;Institut d&rsquo;histoire du temps pr\u00e9sent<\/div>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h3>Pour aller plus loin :<\/h3>\n<div class=\"bibliography-content-book-visual\">\n<figure class=\"image\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" dejavu dejavu-loaded\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/cdn.radiofrance.fr\/s3\/cruiser-production\/2018\/07\/562e9761-5610-44fa-bfb1-8afee31195f9\/250_97910923053640-4224997.jpg?resize=250%2C400&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"Shoah, une double r\u00e9f\u00e9rence ? : des faits au film, du film aux faits\" width=\"250\" height=\"400\" \/><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<p class=\"bibliography-content-book-text\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.editionsmkf.com\/produit\/shoah-une-double-reference\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><em>Shoah, une double r\u00e9f\u00e9rence ? : des faits au film, du film aux faits<\/em>\u00a0<\/a>de\u00a0<span class=\"bibliography-content-book-text-authors\">R\u00e9my Besson<\/span><\/p>\n<p><em>Shoah<\/em> de Claude Lanzmann est \u00a0aujourd&rsquo;hui consid\u00e9r\u00e9 comme une r\u00e9f\u00e9rence. Le film a en grande partie \u00a0d\u00e9fini la mani\u00e8re dont est trait\u00e9 et repr\u00e9sent\u00e9 le g\u00e9nocide des juifs, \u00a0au point d&rsquo;imposer l&rsquo;usage du terme Shoah dans la langue courante.<br \/>\nPendant \u00a0des ann\u00e9es, il a \u00e9t\u00e9 quelque peu difficile de contenir l&rsquo;\u00e9motion que \u00a0procure le film, et de tenter une approche distanci\u00e9e, voire parfois \u00a0critique. Dans les ann\u00e9es 2000, un \u00e9v\u00e9nement va notablement modifier la \u00a0situation\u00a0: la mise \u00e0 disposition des rushs de <em>Shoah<\/em> au Mus\u00e9e \u00a0M\u00e9morial de l&rsquo;Holocauste (Washington), c&rsquo;est-\u00e0-dire de toutes les images \u00a0non retenues dans la version finale du film, ainsi que les \u00a0transcriptions et r\u00e9sum\u00e9s annot\u00e9s des entretiens. Il devenait ainsi \u00a0possible de se confronter au film de l&rsquo;int\u00e9rieur. Fabrication du film et \u00a0choix au montage, modes de diffusion, appropriations successives dans \u00a0les m\u00e9dias et par les intellectuels, ou encore influence du projet sur \u00a0le travail d&rsquo;autres r\u00e9alisateurs, l&rsquo;\u00e9tude de <em>Shoah<\/em> permet de mieux comprendre comment le film est devenu un monument.<br \/>\nSans \u00a0prendre le film comme un mythe qu&rsquo;il faudrait d\u00e9construire, mais en \u00a0r\u00e9v\u00e9lant la dynamique des places qu&rsquo;occupent le r\u00e9alisateur et ses \u00a0\u00e9quipes, ainsi que les protagonistes et les spectateurs, R\u00e9my Besson, \u00a0historien et sp\u00e9cialiste des cultures visuelles, retrace ici la gen\u00e8se \u00a0de <em>Shoah. (Pr\u00e9sentation de l&rsquo;\u00e9diteur)<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p>Source\u00a0: <em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.franceculture.fr\/emissions\/du-grain-a-moudre-dete\/peut-se-passer-du-qatar\">Claude Lanzmann : filmer l&rsquo;horreur<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n<p>Cr\u00e9dit photo :\u00a0<span class=\"caption\">Claude Lanzmann re\u00e7oit l&rsquo;Ours d&rsquo;or \u00e0 la Berlinale 2013\u00a0<\/span><span class=\"bullet\">\u2022<\/span><span class=\"copyright\"> Cr\u00e9dits : <em>Sven Hoppe <\/em>&#8211; <em>Maxppp<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Comment dire l\u2019indicible ? Comment montrer l&rsquo;horreur sans passer par la fiction ? C&rsquo;est la question que pose ce monument du cin\u00e9ma : Shoah, travail immense de Claude Lanzmann, qui nous a quitt\u00e9 le 5 juillet dernier.\u00a0France Culture lui a rendu hommage.\u00a0 L&rsquo;\u00e9mission : \u00ab\u00a0Je ne me suis jamais gu\u00e9ri de la mort. Ce qui [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":14586,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_import_markdown_pro_load_document_selector":0,"_import_markdown_pro_submit_text_textarea":"","_genesis_hide_title":false,"_genesis_hide_breadcrumbs":false,"_genesis_hide_singular_image":false,"_genesis_hide_footer_widgets":false,"_genesis_custom_body_class":"","_genesis_custom_post_class":"","_genesis_layout":"","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[11],"tags":[],"class_list":{"0":"post-14585","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-nouvelles-de-lhistoire","8":"entry"},"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"featured_image_src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/07\/738_dpaphotosthree396569.jpg?resize=600%2C400&ssl=1","featured_image_src_square":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/07\/738_dpaphotosthree396569.jpg?resize=600%2C485&ssl=1","author_info":{"display_name":"Lyonel Kaufmann","author_link":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/author\/lyonelk\/"},"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/07\/738_dpaphotosthree396569.jpg?fit=738%2C485&ssl=1","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p1rJVM-3Nf","jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":2616,"url":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/2010\/03\/04\/polemique-actuelle-les-allies-ont-ils-abandonne-les-juifs\/","url_meta":{"origin":14585,"position":0},"title":"Pol\u00e9mique actuelle: Les alli\u00e9s ont-ils abandonn\u00e9 les juifs?","author":"Lyonel Kaufmann","date":"4 mars 2010","format":false,"excerpt":"Shoah : ce que savaient les alli\u00e9;s sur Dipity. En ao\u00fbt 2009,\u00a0Yannick Haenel publiait\u00a0son roman Jan Karski (1914-2000), r\u00e9sistant des bords de la Vistule pris en tenaille par l\u2019agression hitl\u00e9ro-stalinienne de 1939, devenu coursier du gouvernement polonais en exil (\u00e0 Angers puis \u00e0 Londres), t\u00e9moin singulier de l\u2019entreprise nazie de\u2026","rel":"","context":"Dans &quot;M\u00e9dias et technologies&quot;","block_context":{"text":"M\u00e9dias et technologies","link":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/category\/medias-et-technologies\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":3768,"url":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/2011\/05\/27\/etudes-photo-n27-le-rapport-karski-cinemadoc\/","url_meta":{"origin":14585,"position":1},"title":"Etudes Photo n\u00b027 \u2013 Le Rapport Karski &#124; Cin\u00e9madoc","author":"Lyonel Kaufmann","date":"27 mai 2011","format":false,"excerpt":"En 1977, Claude Lanzmann et son \u00e9quipe ont retrouv\u00e9 le r\u00e9sistant polonais Jan Karski. Fin 1978, apr\u00e8s plus de trente ann\u00e9es de silence, Karski accepte d\u2019\u00eatre film\u00e9 \u00e0 son domicile pendant deux jours. Dans Shoah (1985), Claude Lanzmann octroie trente-neuf minutes \u00e0 ce t\u00e9moignage. En 2010, le r\u00e9alisateur a repris\u2026","rel":"","context":"Dans &quot;Histoire savante&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Histoire savante","link":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/category\/didactique\/histoire-savante\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/07\/224616_185673904817315_182286505156055_523552_6681366_n.jpg?fit=470%2C720&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":11377,"url":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/2016\/04\/16\/revue-de-presse-les-inrocks-les-victimes-de-lhistoire-en-appellent-plus-a-la-connaissance-qua-la-reconnaissance\/","url_meta":{"origin":14585,"position":2},"title":"Revue de presse : Les Inrocks &#8211; \u00ab\u00a0Les victimes de l&rsquo;histoire en appellent plus \u00e0 la connaissance qu\u2019\u00e0 la reconnaissance\u00a0\u00bb","author":"Lyonel Kaufmann","date":"16 avril 2016","format":false,"excerpt":"Un extrait de \u00ab\u00a0Shoah\u00a0\u00bb de Claude Lanzmann Grand historien de la seconde guerre mondiale, auteur d\u2019essais d\u00e9cisifs sur la m\u00e9moire de Vichy \u2013\u00a0Le syndrome de Vichy de 1944 \u00e0 nos jours,\u00a0Vichy, un pass\u00e9 qui ne passe pas\u00a0-, Henry Rousso s\u2019interroge aujourd\u2019hui sur les usages actuels de l\u2019histoire et les politiques\u2026","rel":"","context":"Dans &quot;Histoire savante&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Histoire savante","link":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/category\/didactique\/histoire-savante\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/04\/shoah-tt-width-480-height-320-crop-1-bgcolor-000000-nozoom_default-1-lazyload-1.jpg?fit=480%2C320&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":13793,"url":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/2018\/02\/08\/enseignement-et-apprentissage-de-la-shoah-dorothee-wein-apprendre-avec-des-interviews-temoins-de-la-shoah-22-janvier-2018-hep-vaud-lausanne\/","url_meta":{"origin":14585,"position":3},"title":"Enseignement et apprentissage de la Shoah : Dorothee Wein : Apprendre avec des Interviews. T\u00e9moins de la Shoah | 22 janvier 2018, HEP Vaud, Lausanne","author":"Lyonel Kaufmann","date":"8 f\u00e9vrier 2018","format":false,"excerpt":"Impossible de suivre toutes les sessions d\u2019ateliers organis\u00e9es \u00e0 l\u2019occasion de ces journ\u00e9es consacr\u00e9es \u00e0 l\u2019enseignement de la Shoah. A chaque plage d\u2019atelier, quatre sessions \u00e9taient donn\u00e9es en parall\u00e8le soit en fran\u00e7ais, soit en allemand, soit en anglais. Pour ma part, j\u2019ai fait le choix de suivre des sessions soit\u2026","rel":"","context":"Dans &quot;Didactique&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Didactique","link":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/category\/didactique\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/02\/Capture-d%E2%80%99e%CC%81cran-2018-02-08-a%CC%80-12.13.27.c272c94c06344453bbd1949bd5d8555c.png?fit=574%2C233&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/02\/Capture-d%E2%80%99e%CC%81cran-2018-02-08-a%CC%80-12.13.27.c272c94c06344453bbd1949bd5d8555c.png?fit=574%2C233&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/02\/Capture-d%E2%80%99e%CC%81cran-2018-02-08-a%CC%80-12.13.27.c272c94c06344453bbd1949bd5d8555c.png?fit=574%2C233&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x"},"classes":[]},{"id":2642,"url":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/2010\/03\/12\/links-for-2010-03-11\/","url_meta":{"origin":14585,"position":4},"title":"L&#039;\u00c9ducation nationale, partenaire et prescripteur du film &#124; Le Figaro","author":"Lyonel Kaufmann","date":"12 mars 2010","format":false,"excerpt":"L'\u00c9ducation nationale, partenaire et prescripteur du film\u00a0| Le Figaro Convaincus d'avoir r\u00e9alis\u00e9 un film \u00abvrai\u00bb, c'est-\u00e0-dire impeccable historiquement, la production et Gaumont ont inclus les enseignants dans le processus de diffusion de leur film. Avec, une fois n'est pas coutume, le plein et entier soutien de l'\u00c9ducation nationale. La derni\u00e8re\u2026","rel":"","context":"Dans &quot;Annuaire de sites&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Annuaire de sites","link":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/category\/medias-et-technologies\/annuaire-de-sites\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":20366,"url":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/2025\/07\/15\/jean-pierre-azema-1937-2025\/","url_meta":{"origin":14585,"position":5},"title":"Jean-Pierre Az\u00e9ma (1937-2025)","author":"Lyonel Kaufmann","date":"15 juillet 2025","format":false,"excerpt":"J'apprends par France Culture que l'historien Jean-Pierre Az\u00e9ma est mort \u00e0 l'\u00e2ge de 87 ans. Source : France culture (https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/p\/DMIGmDQxZY3\/) Sp\u00e9cialiste du r\u00e9gime de Vichy et de la R\u00e9sistance, il a profond\u00e9ment marqu\u00e9 l\u2019historiographie contemporaine, en contribuant \u00e0 \u00e9clairer une page longtemps rest\u00e9e trouble de l\u2019histoire nationale.Mais Jean-Pierre Az\u00e9ma ne\u2026","rel":"","context":"Dans &quot;Histoire savante&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Histoire savante","link":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/category\/didactique\/histoire-savante\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/07\/Capture-decran-2025-07-15-a-22.33.25.png?fit=1032%2C1200&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/07\/Capture-decran-2025-07-15-a-22.33.25.png?fit=1032%2C1200&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/07\/Capture-decran-2025-07-15-a-22.33.25.png?fit=1032%2C1200&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/07\/Capture-decran-2025-07-15-a-22.33.25.png?fit=1032%2C1200&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/14585","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=14585"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/14585\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/14586"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=14585"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=14585"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lyonelkaufmann.ch\/histoire\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=14585"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}